This week on The Filmmakers Podcast Dom Lenoir chatted with Zoe Saldana, Marco Perego, and Juliette Welfling. They discussed creative choices, narrative structures, and themes of freedom and identity in films: Dovecote and Emilia Perez.
Dovecote: A Story Rooted in Community
The idea began when Marco, who directed Dovecote, was invited to join the Vatican Pavilion at the Venice Biennale. “It was a dream to be part of the Venice Biennale,” Zoe shared. “We got to do it together and in a way authentic to Venice, shedding light on the Giudecca and telling stories about women.”
Unlike the glamour of red carpets and gondolas, typically associated with Venice, Dovecote focuses on the lives of incarcerated women. Marco’s early research included interviewing women in prison: “the question we asked was what is freedom? Sometimes, for them, it’s much better inside than outside. The performance really did give you that space to be one of these women, part of this community.”
Creating Authenticity in Storytelling
Dovecote’s cinematography plays into the theme of freedom. “The first two minutes are shot in magic hour, the frame is 4:3 and then there’s a very long take (over 15 minutes) in 2:39,” Marco explained. “ using the camera to give the sense of freedom vs. big landscape The idea that freedom is inside, in the community. That’s where you really find freedom. “
Zoe, who stars in the film, spoke about the gentle approach needed to tell such an intimate story. “Gaining the trust (of the women in the facility) was important for Marco and me,” she said. “We wanted them to be active participants and to feel safe. Once we felt we were there, the shooting process became enjoyable for all of us.”
The authenticity of the film resonated deeply. “When we showed the film to the inmates, we went back to the facility and they hugged us,” Marco shared. “That was the most important thing, for these women to be seen. It was very authentic and honest.”
Marco credited screenwriter Alexander Dinelaris for his structural ingenuity. “Alex is an amazing writer, an Oscar winner for Birdman,” he said. “He does something very unique—he’s capable of sending out Zoe’s character, a protagonist outside the prison; and a younger woman who looks like Zoe steps in. That second part, when everything is lost, shows the cycle of these women’s lives. The story could go on forever.”
The Narrative Innovation of Emilia Perez
During this podcast episode Dom and Juliette Welfling, the editor of Emilia Perez, discussed how the film defies conventional storytelling.
Juliette described the creative process as unconventional, from the outset.
She explains how, at first, writer-director Jacques Audiard wanted to make it an opera. “He started writing in 2019, but after speaking with the musicians (Camille Dalmais and Clément Ducol) they finally came to the idea to make a film that wasn’t a film or an opera.”
This blend of genres posed unique challenges, especially in editing.
“There’s a distinctive visual language in Jacques’ films,” Dom commented. “His pacing is deliberate, and the shots are very specific.”
To which Juliette shared her experience of working with Jacques: “He doesn’t write notes while shooting. We speak about the dailies (he doesn’t watch his dailies. He just wants feedback) when there are problems. Otherwise, I just say it’s good and he trusts me. He doesn’t expect directors to see exactly what they have written. If it’s not what he has written, he likes it even better. He wants to be surprised.”
The Power of Silence
Dovecote relies heavily on visual storytelling and emotion rather than dialogue. Marco spoke about a key decision in filming: “We put the camera inside the prison with 81 women. 23 were Italian. The rest from Eastern Europe. Everyone spoke different languages and dialects. Alex looked at me and said, ‘We need to be honest with these women. There cannot be dialogue.’”
For Zoe, this approach resonated deeply. “I’m a former dancer—I learned to tell stories with my body before my voice,” she said. “Marco’s instinct on not writing this piece and having the environment drive the story was the secret sauce that made this work. The images and the setting brought out a rawness that speaks for itself. The most special thing about the story is that there are no words, but you find words as you’re watching it.”
Breaking Genres and Challenging Expectations
Both Dovecote and Emilia Perez break traditional genre conventions. Juliette reflected on this unexpected creative journey: “ I love this film but wasn’t expecting this, none of us were; but it happened and it’s wonderful.”
Dom highlighted Dovecote’s haunting emotional complexity of having “a spiritual edge with the music and the way it’s shot. It elevates it above ‘just a place where people go to get punished’.”
Reflecting and Looking Ahead
As the conversations wrapped up, Marco revealed his next steps. “Alex and I are writing together,” he said. “We shoot in Italy next year. We’re very excited to develop this film. It’s a more quiet space for the audience to be part of this journey.”
Zoe, reflecting on the experiences, summed up the core of both films: “It’s about humanity – certain environments and individuals encourage us to look from a different lens – a more simple lens of ‘is this right or wrong? Good or bad?’. Life is more complex. We all live in the grey. Discovering and rediscovering humanity.”
Juliette shared some wisdom with editors: “ Don’t be shy. If you’re cutting your first movie or short, do anything that goes through your mind. Don’t fear, you will succeed.”
You can listen to the full episode with Zoe Saldana, Marco Perego, and Juliette Welfling here.